001 | Navigating Change and Listening to Your Intuition with Catherine Le Liboux of Stepping Up
Join us for an inspiring chat about burnout, navigating change and tuning into your body and intuition with Catherine Le Liboux of Stepping Up. In this episode, we explore Catherine’s passion of guiding impact-driven professionals in personal transformations and who want to create a positive impact in the world.
She bravely shares her story of her own personal burnout in her corporate career, navigating change during an international move and COVID, all while tuning into her mind, body, and spirit.
Catherine is also the founder of Wider Lens France, a women’s professional Net-Caring circle and community, uniting international women to support and help each other thrive.
Where to find Catherine:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-le-liboux/
Meet Catherine
Catherine is a Mental Fitness Coach for Change-makers & Corporate-preneurs. Her passion lies in guiding Impact-driven professionals in personal transformations, who care about driving more positive impact in the world.
Her approach is holistic & neuroscience backed. The focus is on increasing inner capacity through the cultivation of Human-centered Skills (Emotional Intelligence) and Mental Fitness (Body & Mind Alignment and Mindfulness).
Transcript
[Josie Ng]
Hello, welcome to the very first episode of Her Stories with Josie Ng. I am an international creative designer, female founder and conscious human. So Her Stories is a collection of conversations with inspiring women through their personal and professional journeys from around the globe.
And I am super excited today because we have our very first guest, Catherine of Stepping Up. Hi, Catherine, thank you so much for being here. Do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself?
What do you do? Where are you located?
[Catherine Le Liboux]
Hi, Josie. Oh, this is such a great, lovely opportunity. Thank you so much for inviting me in your first session.
I am so honored to be. I am Catherine. I am Indonesian, now based in France.
I've been a little bit everywhere. I've lived in six countries before. And now I'm based in France.
And yeah, I am a bit of everything. I am a mom of two. I am an entrepreneur.
I am a recovering perfectionist. And I am very passionate about personal development and also about empowering people. So yeah, that's a little bit about me.
[Josie Ng]
Cool. That sounds really inspiring. And I love that you have so many facets to your person as a profile, not only in the personal space, but also in the professional space.
Do you want to dive a little bit more into what you do for work? And what makes you so special in that area? And also, how are you helping people to achieve their dreams?
[Catherine Le Liboux]
Yeah, I love that question. I will try to keep it short. So yes, a little bit about stepping up.
This comes out of a personal journey. In 2018, I felt like I was at the top of the mountain. I was such a corporate warrior.
And I didn't understand how I was not happy. And I just felt so empty. And I felt stuck.
And I just really wanted to figure out what it was. Because on the surface, I got it all. And I think all my life, I was really...
I thought I was very intentional in creating the life I wanted to have. But then I think at some point, I had to unlock to the next level. I think the universe wanted to bring me to the next chapter in my life.
And so I was stuck. And then I had to work on myself. So I had this journey with my coach at the time, so about four years on.
And I just wanted to really learn about myself more. And that actually brought me to also inner healing and helped me to find myself again and reignite my spark in the professional world and creating this new life, new chapter. It felt like I was on autopilot, to be honest.
And I feel now that I can create this life of no limits, life by design. And I do want to design the next chapter of my life. So yeah.
[Josie Ng]
Yeah, that's amazing. I think what's quite interesting is that you mentioned that you were on top of the mountain, you had it all. And I feel like that's something, this concept that we have been prescribed to since we were born, basically.
And even though we come from two different backgrounds, two different cultures and countries, that idea of having it all or being successful is a concept that crosses all continents and cultures. And it's actually almost universal in terms of what does having it all actually mean? And what was that point where you realized that actually this all wasn't the version or the concept of having it all meant for you?
How did you realize that even though you on paper had all these great things, how did you realize that was not the definition anymore of what you wanted?
[Catherine Le Liboux]
That's a great question. I think it really comes from the inside. I felt something really strong.
It felt like an inner voice whispering. And I wouldn't, and at the time I wouldn't call myself an intuitive person. So I, it just really felt like there was this really strong voice whispering and telling me that that something isn't right.
Something is off here. But also there's series of me falling sick, falling. I had a lot of physical health issues.
I didn't prioritize my health and myself. And perhaps there were many factors, right? But what comes up to my mind at the moment was really the time that I really just felt like there was this strong urge from the inside telling me that something was off.
And I still remember that feeling until now. And I would now call I'm highly intuitive now. And I think in whatever things I do, I, yes, I do believe in the power of my mind, but I also believe in the power of my body and listening to my body, my heart and whatever decisions I make.
Because I think there is this superpower of combining the two. Yeah. So it's really as simple as that for me at the time, strong urge inside of me telling me that stop lying to yourself, that you don't have it all.
And yeah, like you're not happy and to be true to myself more.
[Josie Ng]
Yeah. And that's so inspiring because I feel that people tend to forget that they do have this intuition and actually everyone's inherently born with it. I think it's a process of actually remembering who we are and what we know deep within ourselves.
And I think throughout all this corporate or all the conditioning that we go through in our lives from childhood to today, there's just so much of that telling us like, oh, you should do this, you should do that. And as you know, should is a quite violent word through the nonviolent communication training, but it's quite interesting that this inner voice is no longer just this tiny little whisper. It's actually getting louder and louder every day.
And if you're not listening to it, it shows you in different ways in which you will listen. So when you're getting sick, when you're having burnout, it's physically putting you on the floor so that you will actually listen to your intuition and what your body and what your inner wisdom is telling you. So I guess for people who are in this transition or in the beginning of their transition, who kind of know that there's something else out there, what advice do you have for them who, you know, maybe they're struggling, they don't really know how to listen to their intuition.
They have this voice inside of them. They don't really know what to do next or how to do it, or maybe they're scared. So what advice do you have for people who don't really know how to listen to their intuition or who don't know how to cultivate it or what to do with this kind of inner urging?
[Catherine Le Liboux]
Yeah, great question. There are a few things. I think number one is that often when we're stuck, we like to think our way out of it.
And we realize so much on our heads. And we just, you know, we got to think out of this and we find solutions. And so I guess one thing is that stop thinking, feel, feel, feel, listen to your heart and feel what's the voice, what's the feeling in your body and how does that inform you in whatever you do next.
And I think it also depends. I came or I was born into a family and we didn't talk about emotions. So feeling was a hard thing to do for me.
And that was really the point in my life that I think thinking my way out of or thinking of the solution wasn't working anymore. Because all my life I've been thinking, only thinking. And the second thing is listening to your body.
It is easy and hard at the same time. I always say to people that start small and it could be as simple as when you have a headache to just pause and then sit with the pain. Not for one hour.
You can just sit with it for a minute or two and just take a deep breath in and just really have a conversation with yourselves and say like, wow, this is painful. This is painful. And to acknowledge the pain and really sit with it.
And I believe the more we do this, the more we are able to listen to the body's signals. And it could be as simple things like, I don't know about you, but I used to hold my pee like when I didn't have to do stuff, like go to work. And I was just like, got no time for that.
I just got to carry on. And this sounds really silly, but I don't ignore this anymore. Like literally my body says something, got to go.
And I think a lot of this, and also eating, for example, eating. And it's just like pausing yourself and then just listen to your body. Do you feel full?
Do you feel like you want more? And I think there is that pause in between, between you saying like, gosh, this is so good. I want to eat more to like, actually, no, my body says no.
My body says like, you know, I'm full. And I don't know. I'm just so obsessed about this.
Like the body is just so, so smart. It has so much wisdom. And, but we just, we were never taught to watch out for all the signals, whether it's for eating more mindfully or watching the stress levels.
[Josie Ng]
Yeah, I completely agree. And I think you're right. Even just that holding in your pee thing.
It's so funny because I, the way that I work, it's true. I mean, I can relate to this because I also do this, but it's more, I'm not really ignoring it. It's more just that the way I work is that I work in 30 minute sprints.
So I set a timer and then it, this is just how I focus. So I just know that for 30 minutes, I will focus on this. I put my phone away, turn off WhatsApp.
And I just do this one task. And so even if I have to pee and I see the clock, there's like five minutes left. I'm like, do I go now?
Do I pause the clock? Do I just wait five minutes? Like, what do I do?
And so I think you're right that maybe I do need to just pause it, go pee and come back. It's not going to kill anybody to have to attend to my body first and then do the work. So that's a really nice reminder for me not to ignore my body just because I want to finish this before the time has run out.
[Catherine Le Liboux]
Exactly. And it's hard. We were never taught that at school.
And so we have lived that way for so long. So be kind to yourself, right? I'm telling myself, it's just, you know, having that awareness is always key.
And once you're aware, it's easier for you to have this behavioral change and to do that one time and then see what changes in you and your energy and perhaps no more restless when you're doing your work because you really just honor your needs first.
[Josie Ng]
Yeah. Absolutely. And I love that you talk so much about the body and the mind and how it relates to each other because for yourself as a mental health fitness coach, you focus a lot on obviously the mind and how people work through that, through their everyday life and through their professional life.
But I love that this other aspect, I feel like this helps make you unique is that you have a lot of this somatic or holistic body and mind connection. Can you talk a little bit more about the somatic work that you're doing? Because I know that you're also really interested in this right now and you might be going through some trainings.
How did you find this and how do you feel like it's easily adapting to your work right now?
[Catherine Le Liboux]
Yeah, for me, it seems like a natural transition because I was very disconnected with my body and I couldn't feel easily. And so I think that the tendency, I'm still working on that now, by the way. So I'm still a work in progress, but I do have a lot of awareness and I am trying to change my behaviors the way I the way I listen to my body and how I can actually create that body mind connections when it comes to decision making and embarking on changes in my life, because I feel like I've been living and breathing change for the last two decades.
And so I think it started with this physical health issues I had that I just didn't get it. I was sick all the time when I was, you know, the years of my being a corporate warrior and sick all the time. And I had decided to come after the birth of our daughter and that was left untreated.
And I just didn't pay attention and I didn't do sports and I abandoned sports, in fact, and I just really felt a lot of pain. I remember there was a day that I just I couldn't stop crying because it was even painful while sitting. And so I also went through the therapy for it and I realized that there wasn't enough amount of the therapy that I did that could fix my body.
So I got really frustrated. So I went to chiropractor. I think I signed up for like three years and each year, you know, it's it was like kind of treating the symptoms only, you know, and then I and then it came back.
So then I had to come back. So I remember the chiropractor actually told me that Catherine, do you do sports? And I said, no, I'm too busy for that.
So I actually had to. I had a really demanding job. I had to oversee the global growth.
And then so I worked across time zones. My my bosses were in the US and in London and I was based in Singapore. So I guess work around the clock.
And then so I remember there was one day he told me that you can you can keep paying me for another year or you decide to focus on strengthening your body. And I literally for a second, I thought that was insane. You want to get my money and then you're telling me to actually do sports, you know, because I had this habit of like, take the painkiller, right?
Yeah, just this band-aid solution.
[Josie Ng]
Yeah.
[Catherine Le Liboux]
And didn't want to go into the the root cause.
[Josie Ng]
Yes.
[Catherine Le Liboux]
And and so it just didn't make sense to me what he said. But then I he was serious. So then I I thought, OK, well, maybe he's got the point.
So I decided to to to prioritize my sports. And then from then on, I also work with a coach. And a lot of it is about feeling the emotions, the stress, the frustrations, being stuck.
And all of that really helped me to to just listen to what my heart desires. I wanted change in my life and to really listen that change was the way to go versus, you know, my mind telling me don't change. Yeah.
Don't don't rock the boat. And and then then there was this misalignment. Right.
And it made me more confused. And so that was the I would I would say the very first things that made me curious about somatic or I'm listening to my body more and prioritizing physical health and mental health as well. So I really feel like the this connection is so important for me.
And yes, I know the mind is so important, but relying on the mind alone isn't the way to go isn't sustainable, at least not for me personally. So really is about the balance and and tapping into the wisdom of the body as well.
[Josie Ng]
Yeah, absolutely. I think that it's obviously both of them are very important individually, but I think when you put them together, you know, it creates the universe of you as a human, as an individual. So you can't just have only body or only mind.
They have to work in tandem together because they're one. So it's really interesting that you bring this somatic practice and the mental health fitness into your work, because I think it's true that you work with a lot of corporates or people who are very ambitious and driven. And so they're all driven up here by the mind.
Right. But they don't pay attention to their body. So it's really important that when they're making changes or when they start listening to their intuition, that they also have to pay attention to their physical body, their spiritual body, and then also their health and wellness.
Right. So you do. I know that you work in terms of mental fitness.
Can you describe a little bit about what that actually means? How does that work into your work? And yeah, just tell us a little bit more about that.
[Catherine Le Liboux]
Yeah, with pleasure. Mental fitness is really the state where when your thoughts and emotions no longer have power over you because you take control and you are the one knowing how to respond to the situations. And this takes practice.
And I'm a work in progress myself. The mental fitness for me is the mind and the body. Right.
The feelings, the heart. So it really is about this body mind connection. It's just inseparable.
And yes. So for this one, it is very important for the people I work with, typically high high achievers, high performers, they would like to unlock the next level or they would like to embark on change. And I think the idea is that the idea of possibilities, the idea of this life of no limits, we can achieve that once we are mentally fit so that we can actually recover faster.
Because I'm not saying that challenges will not be there because life comes with a lot of challenges. Right. But it really is about training the mind, training the body, training the heart and really creating strong inner foundations for you to recover faster.
So it's never about avoiding. It's not about toxic positivity and stay alive, be positive all the time. It really is about recovering faster.
And that's what sets people apart when it comes to we call it people who try and people who seem to get it together. And it's just more sustainable, because I always say to my clients, you slow down because you want to aim for sustainability. You want to aim for sustainable productivity.
You don't want to aim for speed and then you crash down and then you recover slower. Yeah. So it really is about slowing down, have sustainable productivity and overspeed, because I knew what it's like to prioritize speed in the previous chapter of my life.
It's not worth it. And it is not worth it. And I think in a way, our society is changing, thankfully, but it used to be that way that, you know, very much into this competitiveness versus collaborations.
And there is this kind of like a big masculine energy, not about the gender, right? It really is about the energy of the masculine energy, which is more about being aggressive, you know, in dominance and competitiveness versus just like slow, patience, you know, and really like listening and creating that space for curiosity and slowing down. So I really believe in both, in balancing both.
So being mindful when you're too much attached on one energy, it really is about time that you balance both, because at some point when we're too attached on one energy, I really believe that it is not going to be sustainable. So at one point, the person would have a burnout or high anxiety, depressed, right? So that's really going to lead people to slower recovery afterwards.
[Josie Ng]
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you talk about this kind of masculine, feminine energy. And even though, you know, those can be stereotypical energy, it's also yin and yang, right?
So it's the assertiveness, the dominance, but also the ability to slow down, to take stock of what's going on. And it's actually never like one channel or the other. It's actually how do you balance both of them and do them in a way that they're harmonious with each other?
Otherwise, you're just going to be a bit bipolar, having like the angel or the devil on your shoulders. And I think this is really important because also with, you know, corporates or female founders, anywhere in life, you will have this kind of balance that is necessary to determine which way you want to go, right? And another thing that you mentioned is change a lot.
I think this is a really big theme that's within your work, as well as obviously you as a person, because I feel that you thrive on change as well, or at least you really like it and you've managed to become very resilient to it. Because I think, as we know, change is really the only constant, right? So whether it's in your personal life and your professional life, there's always going to be changes, ones that you initiate and ones that you may have no control over.
So I feel that your work is so important, because with mental fitness, it's really about building the resilience, building the confidence and the ability to adapt. And if you get knocked down, that's normal, right? It's all about up and down.
It's never about being, yeah, exactly. So you mentioned change a lot. I know that you've changed countries, continents, languages, jobs a lot.
I guess, what's your advice for people who, maybe they're a little bit resistant to change, and they don't really know how to accept it or, and also culture in the world is changing, thank God. But I guess, how do you, how do people handle change when especially it's out of their control and they just don't have any visibility or it's just not something that they had chosen? Like, how do you handle this type of change?
[Catherine Le Liboux]
Yeah, certainly it's different when it's by choice or not. And I have experienced both. And I think one thing that I would love people know is, and I think a lot of people overlook this step, is to really make space for their emotions.
Because it's extremely draining when you're in this stage, and anxiety in the stage as well. And I think what I have experienced for myself was that I completely overlooked the amount of emotions that I had to process them. Versus, you know, just kind of like telling myself, like, keep going.
You know, like, next, you know, you can do it. And not seeking help, or not really make space for the emotions. Because I think I felt that if I share that too much, you know, people would think that I am weak.
And I had a problem to be seen as a weak person. It was a discovery during my work with my coach. Yeah.
That I had so much discomfort when somebody would label me as weak. I couldn't stand that.
[Josie Ng]
But is that like a label that someone gave to you? Like, they just said, Catherine, you're so weak. Or is this a story that you told yourself?
[Catherine Le Liboux]
No, I think I was holding on to this image that I am a strong person. Yeah. Because I had to kind of like, I had to be independent early on.
And I don't come from a rich family. So my parents really struggled. When I was young, I moved homes, rental homes for like six, seven times.
Um, and then I just had this passion and fire that I, I don't know what age it was, maybe around 1112. I said to myself, that I am going to be the one in this family who's going to save this family financially. And it's crazy.
I still have that image vividly. Like, when I was that young, I just took it on because I saw that. No, I saw my brother, he's really, really, you know, at the time, you know, we didn't have any issues together.
